Rashi-Is-Simple Mailing List
                        (C) Dr Russell Jay Hendel, 1999
                        http://www.shamash.org/rashi

                        Volume 4 Number 6
                        Produced Nov, 12 1999

Topics Discussed in This Issue
------------------------------
v1d25-22
          DRSH GOD=SEEK GOD means BOTH(a) to pray  or(b) to seek
          advice from a prophet. Rashi & Ramban on this verse
          COMPLEMENT each other (they don't disagree). Many people
          (besides Rivkah) both PRAYED & SOUGHT PROPHETIC ADVICE.
          WALKING TO SEEK = Going  someplace
v1a28-2
          You can express going TO a place by either (a) Placing a
          PREFIX LAMED before the name of the place (eg L
          MITZRAYIM= TO EGYPT) or (b) placing a SUFFIX HAY after
          the name of the place (eg MITZRAYMA = TO EGYPT). b2)For
          2 word names place HAY after 1st word

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                        ***************************
                        ***     READING TIPS    ***
                        ***************************

  IF YOU ARE IN A HURRY WE RECOMMEND THE FOLLOWING SECTIONS:
        * VERSE:
        * RASHI TEXT:
        * BRIEF BUT COMPLETE NARRATIVE EXPLANATION:

  "HOW DO I FIND QUICKLY A SPECIFIC SECTION?"
        ANSWER: Use your FIND menu
        For example: FIND VERSE:
                takes you to the beginning of the next section.
        Similarly
                FIND NARRATIVE EXPLANATION:
                takes you to the brief explanation of Rashi.

  "IS THERE AN EASY WAY TO GO TO EACH VERSE AND POSTING?"
        Yes. Use your FIND menu.
                "FIND #*#*#*#"  takes you to the next posting

#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# (C) Dr Hendel, 1999 *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*

VERSE: v1d25-22
======

        v1d25-22 ..and she (Rivkah) went to seek God

        v1e25-22 ..and she (Rivkah) went to seek God

RASHI TEXT:
===========

        v1d1-25 ..Rivkah went to the University run by Shem

        v1e1-25 ..Rivkah went to the University run by Shem in
                order that they should tell her how her pregnancy
                will progress


BRIEF BUT COMPLETE NARRATIVE EXPLANATION:
=========================================

OUTLINE
-------
There is a controversy between Rashi and Ramban on this verse.
We present as follows
        >First we state the controversy
        >Then we state how to resolve the controversy
        >Then we list 'levels of understanding the controversy'
This simply controversy will afford students an excellent
opportunity to learn the principles by which controversies can
be resolved as well as to learn pitfalls to avoid.


THE CONTROVERSY
---------------
Rashi holds that
        >Rivkah went to obtain PROPHETIC advice on her pregnancy
Ramban, by contrast holds that
        >Rivkah went to PRAY
To support his opinion the Ramban brings down the verses where the
Hebrew verb
        >SEEK (DRSH)
means prayer {LIST1}.


THE RESOLUTION
--------------
But as {LIST1} shows there are verses where
        >DRASH
must mean
        >SEEK PROPHETIC advice.
Furthermore, as {LIST1} shows
        >WALKING TO SEEK GOD
vs
        >SEEKING GOD
only occurs in two cases. The other case (2K1-2) was when King
Achazya sent messengers to inquire from the Fly gods about his
illness.



Clearly then
        >WALKING to SEEK GOD
denotes
        >GOING SOMEPLACE.
Hence Rashi is Simple. It says here  that
        >Rivkah WENT to seek God
and hence we interpret it to mean that
        >SHE WENT someplace
to seek advice.



Rashi identifies this place she went to with the University of
Shem. He does this because Rashi knew from other sources that
such a University existed. This need not concern us here and will
be defended in a later Rashi.  For the moment the important thing
is that Rivkah WENT SOMEPLACE to seek advice. (Ramban does not
disagree that Rivkah went someplace; the disagreement is WHY
she went there--to pray or to seek advice).


Next upon reviewing {LIST1} we see that the Hebrew verb
        >To Seek (DRSH)
is used BOTH for
        >Praying
and also for
        >Seeking advice from a prophet.


Therefore the most logical conclusion is that
        >Rivkah went to Shem's University to pray
The content of her prayer was possibly that she should
        >get prophetic guidance
After the prayer she
        >sought prophetic guidance from Shem.


Such a view unifies the contributions of both Rashi and Ramban
and is consistent with {LIST1}.  Furthermore our conjecture that
Rivkah went for BOTH prayer and advice is born out by {LIST2} which
shows a variety of other people who BOTH prayed and sought advice--
        >Chana (Sam1) prayed and was given a priestly blessing
        >David prayed for victories and also sought prophetic advice
         from the priests (1Sam23-2)
        >Manoach PRAYED that an Angel should give prophetic ADVICE
        (Ju 13-9)


In summary we posit that BOTH Rashi and Ramban are correct--Rivkah
        >Both prayed and sought advice
Such a position is consistent with
        >the list of verses where, DRASH=SEEK, occurs
and with
        >the list of people who BOTH prayed and sought advice


Having explained the Rashi-Ramban controversy we now list various
levels of understanding this controversy.


THE ELEMENTARY LEVEL
--------------------
Since the Ramban DOES bring verses where
        >DRASH = SEEK = PRAY
while Rashi does not bring any such verses we could flippantly
say that Rashi was wrong and Ramban was right.

Such an approach is inadequate since it assumes that Rashi did
not know the Bible---a blatant absurdity



THE INTERMEDIATE LEVEL
----------------------
Using {LIST1} we can find verses where
        >DRASH = TO SEEK PROPHETIC ADVICE
Hence we have verses to support both Rashi and Ramban. Consequently
we can say that Rashi used his verses while Ramban used his verses.
In other words we say that the Rmbn school believed that DRASH=PRAY
while the Rashi school believed that DRASH=SOUGHT PROPHETIC ADVICE.



At the intermediate level we see controversy as a political process.
We see each school believing in their set of verses.


Such an approach is inadequate since it does not account for how
Rashi dealt with Ramban's verses nor does it account for how
Ramban dealt with Rashi's verses.


THE ADVANCED LEVEL
------------------
At this level we seek to view Rashi and Ramban as COMPLEMENTING
each other. In other words we see
        >DRASH=SEEK
as having elements of BOTH prayer and seeking prophetic advice.


Notice that this requires amending the Ramban's language. For the
Ramban said
        >DRASH ***only*** means seek thru prayer
Clearly this is not true as shown by {LIST1}. We certainly don't
think that the Ramban was ignorant of the verses where DRASH
means SEEKING thru prophecy. Hence we interpret his statement
        >DRASH **only** means seek thru prayer
to mean
        >DRASH ***can*** mean seek ***ONLY*** thru prayer.


As indicated the advanced level where we see Rashi and Ramban
complementing each other leads to RICHNESS of interpretation
and understanding.


The only inadequacy of the ADVANCED LEVEL is that our suggestion
that Rashi and Ramban are complementing each other and that the
verse
        >SEEK GOD
means
        >BOTH
seek God thru prayer and seek God thru advice is pure speculation
on our part. We are only assuming that the verse means BOTH things
in order to avoid a controversy. We have not intrinsically shown
the position on it own merits. This deficiency will be remedied
at the next, PROFOUND level.



THE PROFOUND LEVEL
------------------
At the profound level we add to the advanced level by providing
{LIST2} which PROVES our contention that MANY people (not just
Rivkah) BOTH
        >PRAYED TO GOD
        >SOUGHT PROPHETIC ADVICE.
Thus the profound level brings the desired unity of Rishonim
by proving all contentions with LISTS. In fact the PROFOUND level
allows us to go back and reanalyze the verses brought by the
Ramban in which he said that
        >SEEK = PRAYER
It would emerge that SEEK could mean both PRAYER and seeking
ADVICE in these verses.



As mentioned in the introduction, this simple controversy affords us
the opportunity to know the principles by which controversies can
be resolved and how to prove such resolutions.





COMMENTS ON RASHI'S FORM:
=========================

LISTS {For ADVANCED students and for those with more time}:
===========================================================

{LIST1} {Verses where DRASH=SEEK is used. In some verses it MUST
        mean SEEK Thru prayer. In some verses it MUST mean SEEK
        thru prophecy. In many verses it can mean either. Also
        in only one case we have WALKING to seek which means
        going someplace to seek}

VERSE   TEXT                     WALK           PRAYER/ADVICE
=====   ======================   =============  =============
2K1-2   Ask the Fly gods         Walk and seek  Pagan Advice
Ps34-5  I sought God,He answers                 Prayer
Ps77-3  When suffering I sought                 Prayer
P119-10 With my heart I sought                  Prayer
2Ch18-6 Is..a prophet to seek                   Prophetic advice
2R3-11  Seek from a prophet                     Prophetic advice
1C10-14 He sought Witches,not Gd                Prophetic advice
1Sam9-9 When one seeks God                      Seeks Prophecy


{LIST2} {People who sought God BOTH thru prayer and prophetic advice


PERSON          VERSE WHERE THEY PRAYED    VERSE OF OBTAINING ADVICE
======          =======================    =========================
Chana           1Sam1-10                   1Sam1-17
Manoach         Jud13-8                    Jud13-9
David           Ps52:60                    1Sam23-2,11,12



CROSS REFERENCES:
=================


ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS:
=================



RULE CLASSIFICATION {See the web site for comparable examples}:
===============================================================
        DOUBLE PARSHAS
        DOUBLE PARSHAS


QUESTIONS FOR STUDENTS:
=======================
HW #1: Create a complete list of all verses where SEEK occurs.
Answer the following questions
  >In which verses does it HAVE to mean PRAYER
  >In which verses does it HAVE to mean SEEKING PROPHETIC ADVICE
  >In which verses can it mean either

#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# (C) Dr Hendel, 1999 *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*

VERSE: v1a28-2
======

        v1a28-2 Go to PADAN ARAM (PdenA)

        v1b28-2 to the house of Lavan (BaythA)

        v1a46-1 and he came to Beer Sheva (BeerA)

        v1b14-10 ..they fled to the Mountains (HRHA)

RASHI TEXT:
===========

        v1a28-2 Pdena = TO Padan

        v1b28-2 BaythA = TO the Bayit. Whenever you want to
                say TO (=L) you can drop the L and place a
                HAY at the end

        v1a46-1 A HAY at the end of the word has the same
                meaning as a LAMED at the beginning of the word

                They both mean TO the designated place

        v1b14-10 HRA = TO the mountains
                 To express the concept
                        >TO the mountains
                 you can either PREFIX mountain with a lamed
                        >L HAR
                 or you can SUFFIX mountain with a HAY
                        > HARA

                 Both mean TO THE MOUNTAIN

                 (And this differs from HHARAH which means to
                 THE mountain).





BRIEF BUT COMPLETE NARRATIVE EXPLANATION:
=========================================
From time to time Rashi will teach Grammatical rules.




In the above verses Rashi teaches that if you want to state
that
        >you are coming TO a place
then you can either
        >place the prefix LAMED before the name of the place
for example
        >L Mitzrayim (To egypt)
or you can
        >place the SUFFIX Hay after the name of the place
for example
        > MitzraymA




{LIST1} shows 4 times Rashi mentions this principle in
Brayshit. The rule is simple,straightforward and well known
and needs no further comment.



COMMENTS ON RASHI'S FORM:
=========================

Why does Rashi bring down the Rule 4 times.

In 1-46-1 Rashi shows how to use this SUFFIX HAY rule
when the name of the place consists of two words.
        >You place the HAY on the FIRST of the two
        >words---BeerA Shva.


On v1b28-2 Rashi shows how this rule applies even to
places that do not have a proper name---(thus BAYIT=HOUSE
and BAYTHA = TO THE HOUSE). This is in fact further
illuminated by the Sifsay Chachamim who points out that
the SUFFIX HAY rule only applies to places and certain
utensils.


Finally on v1b14-10 Rashi points out the difference
between
        >HRH = fled to mountains
versus
        >HHRH = to THE mountain.


I have already indicated several time that when Rashi has
a grammatical rule to teach he will GO OVER ALL CASES ONCE
Hence here he goes over
        >The general case
        >The case of a 2 word name (Use Suffix Hay on 1st word)
        >The case of a non proper name (Like HOUSE)
        >The distinction between TO MOUNTAINS and TO THE MOUNTAIN


Such a method is superior to Grammar books which give many examples
but do not always cover all cases. By contrast Rashi always covers
all cases and tries to allocate one example per case.



LISTS {For ADVANCED students and for those with more time}:
===========================================================


{LIST1} {Verses where
                >TO a place
         is expressed by placing a HAY at the end rather
         than a LAMED at the beginning. I don't presently
         know why Rashi stated this principle on 4 verses
         but not on the others}

VERSE    PLACE   TO THAT PLACE           RASHI
=====    =====   =============           =====
v1a28-2  Padan   PadanA                  Yes
v1b28-2  Bayith  BaythA                  Yes
v1b14-10 HR      HRHA                    Yes
v1a46-1  BeerSva BeerA Shva              Yes
v1-46-3  Mitryim MitzraymA               No
v1-46-4  Mitzrym MitzraymA               No
v1-46-6  Mitzrym MitzraymA               No








CROSS REFERENCES:
=================

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS:
=================

RULE CLASSIFICATION {See the web site for comparable examples}:
===============================================================
        GRAMMAR
        GRAMMAR
        GRAMMAR
        GRAMMAR


QUESTIONS FOR STUDENTS:
=======================
HW #1: Expand the list of places where the SUFFIX HAY RULE is used.

#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# (C) Dr Hendel, 1999 *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*

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--------------
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NOTATIONAL CONVENTIONS
----------------------
e.g. v5b2-1 means as follows:
        The "v"         means           verse
        The "5"         means           Deuteronomy--the 5th book
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                                        Seir)

Similarly v5-2-1 would mean Dt 2:1 and probably refer to all
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---------
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