_____________________________________
| JOB                                |
|(c) Feb 2003 RashiYomi Incorporated |
| Posting 10 of 25                   |
| Feb 24, 2003                       |
| In Memory of Abraham Hendel        |
| Translated by Dr Russell Hendel    |
--------------------------------------

SCHEDULE
--------
Sorry for the month delay. We have had some new
members and I wanted to give them time to catch
up. If worse comes to worse I will do 1 posting @month
till the summer and then go to 3 a month. There
is no problem with completing the translation by
Nov 2003.

FOR NEWCOMERS--ARCHIVES
------------------------
Hi Did you just join...you probably wont fully
understand these postings unless you read the
introduction and former chapters. You have to sign
up to get a yahoo id. You can then visit the Job
archives at--

http://www.Yahoo.com/group/RashiYomi_Job
http://www.Yahoo.com/group/RashiYomi_Job/messages


Write RJHendel@juno.com if you have any problems.

CHAPTER 16,17
=============
Today we translate chapter 16,17 which
according to the outline contains
- ROUND 2
- DIALOG 1 '
- Jobs rebuttal of Eliphaz-s 2nd attempt to
state his solution to evil

A summary of dialogs till now is as follows
--------------------------------------------------------
ELIPHAZ: Suffering comes to teach & improve
JOB: SUFFERING improves;but PAIN prevents improvement

BILDAD: Suffering comes from sin;Success from observance
JOB: But national tragedies affect righteous/wicked alike

TZORFAR: Suffering comes to encourage more Learning
JOB: Mans life is too short; he cant learn that much more

ELIPHAZ(ROUND 1): Suffering comes to teach and improve
ELIPHAZ(ROUND 2): Suffering/happiness is INNER not OUTER
JOB (Round 1): SUFFERING improves;but PAIN prevents improvement
JOB (Round 2): UNJUST PAIN prevents learning; I-m unjustly
tortured
--------------------------------------------------------



Here is the MAIN sentence for this round
----------------------------------------------------------
ELIPHAZ(ROUND 1): Suffering comes to teach and improve
ELIPHAZ(ROUND 2): Suffering/happiness is INNER not OUTER
JOB (Round 1): SUFFERING improves;but PAIN prevents improvement
JOB (Round 2): UNJUST PAIN prevents learning; I-m unjustly
tortured
----------------------------------------------------------

We again note how the Round 2 answer of Job to Eliphaz
bears similarity to the Round 1 answer. Cf the following
verses.

Jb07-01:10
Jb17-10:16

Note the commonality in each on
- the hope for death
- the preoccupation with worms
- the turning of day to night

There are many other similarities in the chapters.
If there is any special nuance in this round 2 answer
it is the emphasis not only on PAIN but on UNJUST PAIN.
In effect Job argues that perhaps one can learn from
JUST(Deserved) PAIN: But one cannot learn from unjust pain

We now apply our 3 fold
approach(TOPIC,SUBTOPICS, WORDS)
to Chapter 16,17(See posting 1 for
an explanation of this approach)


Here are the 4 sections of this chapter.

------------------------------------------------------
MAIN:(ROUND 2): UNJUST PAIN prevents learning; I-m unjustly tortured
------------------------------------------------------
Jb16-02:05 You (my friends) utter cliches; you dont comfort
Jb16-06:18 I am complaining because my pain is unjust
Jb16-19:09 God would take my side
(That you flatter him & I am righteous)
Jb17-10:16 (Suffering cant be to improve because)
you cant learn in fright/pain
-----------------------------------------------------

On a technical point, the reader can of
course recognize chapter subsections by content.
However the reader can also recognize chapter
subsections by KEYWORDS which introduce these
subsections. The sections of this chapter begin
with the Hebrew Keywords IF, ALSO, HOWEVER

Let us now review the 4 individual sections

---------------------- SECTION 1 --------------------------------
MAIN:(ROUND 2): UNJUST PAIN prevents learning; I-m unjustly tortured
------------------------------------------------------
Jb16-02:05 You (my friends) utter cliches; you dont comfort
-----------------------------------------------------
Jb16-02 I have heard comfort like yours frequenty
------- You comfort by toiling [in comforting words]
Jb16-03 Is there then an end to these words
------- Do you get satisfaction in refraining [cliches]
Jb16-04 I, like you, am trained in talking
-------
------- if our places were exchanged
------- -- would I put cliches together on you words?
------- -- would I nod my head against you[For your complaints]
Jb16-05 [On the contrary] I would strengthen you
------- the trembling of my lips would assuage your suffering
---------------------------------------------------------------


------------------- SECTION 2 -----------------------------
MAIN:(ROUND 2): UNJUST PAIN prevents learning; I-m unjustly tortured
------------------------------------------------------
Jb16-06:18 I am complaining because my pain is unjust
-----------------------------------------------------
Jb16-06 It is not that talking assuages my pain
------- or that silence will make it go
Jb16-07 But rather [the reason I am screaming/debating is that]
------- ------- I have become wearied of the sufferings
------- ------- my little family nest has been destroyed
Jb16-08 ------- my scabs testify for me
------- ------- my emaciation stands up for testimony
Jb16-09 ------- [and they testify that ]
------- ------- His (Gods) anger is cutting
------- ------- He hates me
------- ------- He grinds his teeth at me
------- ------- My Enemy(God) sharpens his stare at me
Jb16-10 ------- The masses pour on me their obscenities
------- ------- they slap my cheek humiliatingly
------- ------- they fill (bars to gloat) over me
Jb16-11 ------- God has delivered me to evil people
------- ------- He crooks my path thru the wicked
Jb16-12 ------- I used to be tranquil--but now I am broken
------- ------- my backbone has been seized and crushed
------- ------- God uses me for target practice
Jb16-13 ------- He rolls out the arrows
------- ------- Slashing my kidneys without mercy
------- ------- Spilling my gall to the ground
Jb16-14 ------- He slashes slash after slash
------- ------- He comes on me like a warrior
Jb16-15 ------- My bandaids are sacks
------- ------- my face lotion, dust
Jb16-16 ------- My face tarred from tears
------- ------- death hovers over my eyelids
------- ------- [the reason I am screaming/debating is that]
Jb16-17 all this without iniquity in my hands
------ -------- with my prayers clear
------ [Thus I am screaming, not to relieve pain,but because of
injustice]
Jb16-18 Earth: Dont cover up my blood
------- let there be no place (of refuge) for my screams
-------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------- SECTION 3 -------------------------------
MAIN:(ROUND 2): UNJUST PAIN prevents learning; I-m unjustly tortured
------------------------------------------------------
Jb16-19:09 God would take my side
(That you flatter Him; for I am righteous)
-----------------------------------------------------
Jb16-19 Even now: My witness is in heaven
------- --------- -- support is -- above
Jb16-20 ---- My poetical friends: --
------- ---- It is to God that I turn my eyes
Jb16-21 ---- For God will enter into debate with man
------- ---- the way people talk with their friends
Jb16-22 ---- Despite the comfort of my numbered years(ending my
suffering)
------- ---- ------- that I am going to where I will not return(Death)
Jb17-01 ---- ([For indeed] My emotions --- have been wounded
------- ---- [For indeed] My days ------- have been shaken)
Jb17-02 Are not mockers with me [ie my friends]
------- My thoughts only dwell on their bitter comments
Jb17-03 [Therefore, God] place me; Give me surety with you
------- ---------------- someone to seal the deal with a handshake
Jb17-04 [For indeed] You (God) have hidden wisdom from their hearts
------- ------------ Therefore you will never be elevated by them
Jb17-05 ------------ My friends practice flattery
------- ------------ (even) their children hope (to avoid them)
-------
Jb17-06 [For if God debates with me and takes my side]
------- I will become posted as an example to the world
------- I will be the point everyone drums on
-------
Jb17-07 [When people learn that... ]
--------my eyes have decayed from anger (on my friends)
------- My (social) hopes are as fleeting as shadows
-------
Jb17-08 [When they learn this then (I am sure) that] ]
------- --- the righteous will be shocked on this
(behavior of my friends)
------- --- the innocent will fight the flatterers
Jb17-09 --- And The righteous (me) will grab back his path
------- --- The pure of hand(me) will increase strength
---------------------------------------------------------------

------------------- SECTION 4 ------------------------------
MAIN:(ROUND 2): UNJUST PAIN prevents learning; I-m unjustly tortured
------------------------------------------------------
Jb17-10:16 (Suffering cant be to improve because)
you cant learn in fright/pain
-----------------------------------------------------
Jb17-10 However, if you (my friends) should please come back
------- then I [still] wont find among you someone wise
------- [For here is the answer to SUFFERING FOR IMPROVEMENT]
Jb17-11 My days pass
------- My hopes----------------------have been uprooted
------- -- intended conquests in life
Jb17-12 My days have become nights
------- My BRIGHT [life] has become DARKNESS
Jb17-13 If I hope? If is that the grave be my house
------- --------- That my bedspreads/bed should be my grave
Jb17-14 --------- That Hell be my father
------- --------- That worms be my mother and sister
Jb17-15 WHERE? Yes WHERE is my hope
------- ------ My hope? Who has seen it
Jb17-16 (but my) Hellish bones decay
------- even if together they turn into dust
----------------------------------------------------------