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From: Russell Hendel <RHendel@RO.HCFA.GOV>
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 11:08:32 -0500
Subject: Grape Juice (even if not from Concentrate) for the Seder

The discussion by [Press, Brotsky, Segal etc in V23#71] about using
Welch's grape juice for the four cups leads me to ask the following
question.

I once mentioned to Rabbi Jordan Kellemer (currently in LI) that I used
Grape Juice, not wine, on Shabbath because I personally liked the sweet
taste of Grape juice and found wine a little bit too strong.  I
commented that I thought it more consistent with Halachah to use
something sweet.

Rabbi Kellemer responded by observing that my logic was OK for Shabbath
but not for the Seder.  He acknowledged that grape juice is generally
SWEETER than wine.  However, the ARBAH KOSOTH has another component
BESIDES SIMCHATH YOM TOV, namely, CHERUTH, an affirmation of freedom.

People, continued Rabbi Kellemer, who wish to affirm their adulthood
don't generally use Grape Juice which is available and popular even with
children and other not completely free people. Adulthood/Freedom is best
confirmed thru "adult" drinks like wine.  So, concluded Rabbi Kellemer,
even though from a Simchath yom tov point of view the grape juice is
better, nevertheless, the 4 cups should be of wine for reasons of
CHERUTH.

Rabbi Kellemer was not MY POSAYK; however because of the logic of his
arguments I never again had grape juice, but only wine, during the
Seder.

However, according to the recent discussions in MJ it would appear that
the only OBJECTION to grape juice is if it is from concentrate.  Could
someone please clarify the situation for me?

More specifically, I am asking if it is permissable (or preferable) to
use pure Grape Juice for the 4 cups seeing that wine not grape juice is
needed to affirm CHERUTH.  Please note, I am not asking for PESAK's in
books; I am rather asking for a response to the logic of Rabbi
Kellemer's observation.

I of course would be eternally "grapeful" if I could go back to having
sweet grape juice on Yom Tov

Russell Hendel, Ph.d. ASA
Dept of Math and Computer Science
Drexel Univ; Phil PA
rhendel@mcs.drexel.edu