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From: Russell Hendel <rhendel@saber.towson.edu> Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 01:47:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: Are modesty laws dependent on Societal vs Individual Norms Avi Feldblum in V30n13 writes >>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Nov 1999, Russell Hendel wrote: > The suggestion that eg saying HELLO to a married woman (when you > don't ordinarily say HELLO) creates "sexual urges" seems a little > bit of an exaggeration. The use of the term "you" above I think somewhat confuses the issue. I think the question is what is considered "ordinary" behavior. If you are living in a society where a man does not speak publicly to a married woman who is not his spouse, then to go and do that is a violation of borders or we may be concerned that it could lead to issues of arousal. >>>>>>>>>> In other words Avi thinks the probibition (of Saying Hello to a married women) is dependent upon the "ordinary behavior of SOCIETY" while I think it depends upon the "ordinary behavior of that INDIVIDUAL". It is for that reason that I used the term "you". I would be curious for halachic sources. I based myself on an ANALOGOUS prohibition of saying HELLO to someone who loaned you money--this is based on patterns of the INDIVIDUAL not SOCIETY (cf Rambam, Loans, 5:12). Avi further writes >>>>>>>> (Bringing in Moshe and Sarah is again somewhat of a red herring here, halacha in general does not deal with singular individuals,>>>>> This is a question on Rabbi Freedman, not on me. I think Rabbi Freedmans intention is that even privacy between a say a teenage girl and boy is not prohibited because we worry that they may have sex but rather is prohibited because it violates their borders of modesty (or another way of saying it, it creates poor atmosphere). Moshe and Sarah were only chosen as a GOOD example. Russell Hendel; Phd ASA; http://www.shamash.org/rashi/