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From: Russell Hendel <rhendel@saber.towson.edu>
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 22:02:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RE: Collect Call--when you should NOT be a BAAL NEFESH

There have been many more postings in V31 on the collect call
issue. Allow me to address 5 points that have been raised and not yet
answered. In particular while some people have softened their stand on
my PERMITTING 'collect call' nevertheless they feel it is a violation of
the 'spirit of the law'--I would like to show that sometimes the spirit
of the law PROHIBITS people from abstaining from collect call!Here are
the 5 points.

THEFT is a crime of TRANSFERENCE of property while FRAUD is an
INFORMATION crime. In other words THEFT with the owner knowing is still
THEFT(eg Rambam Theft 1:3) As has already been correctly noted the issue
in PAYMENT for a theft is not whether the thief benefited but whether
the person stolen from normally would charge for what was stolen (Theft
& Loss 3:9).

FRAUD occurs when you TELL A PERSON SOMETHING that is not true about a
sold item. PERMITTED DECEPTION occurs when there is OMISSION of
pertinent information about the sold item (but no lie has been told). I
again review the example from Rambam Sales 18:4 (and then respond to
Bill Burstein)

>>I (maliciously) destroy the outer shells of beans so that all my
>beans should look alike and people should buy all of them (if I kept
>the shells then buyers could recognize their cookability from the shells
>and not all of them would sell). Although I have hurt the buyer by destroying
>the shells and although I have hidden this information from him nevertheless
>I am selling the bean "AS IS" and therefore it is permitted.

(To answer Bill Burstein--in the collect call I am transparent when I
tell the operator 'Let me know if so and so wants to accept a collect
call' but I have hidden my intention of having them say no. This is no
different than the above case where the bean is 'AS IS' but I have
destroyed/hidden its shell which gives important information)

Stan/Cynthia Tenen bring up the issue of how to education children. I
will simply say that when I was growing up my father, Abraham Hendel,
would frequently discuss fraud and theft in the Jewish community--he was
quick not only to point out the wrong in the act but how their goals
could have been met in a perfectly legal manner (My father is an
accountant).  In other words I was not only taught that theft was Divine
and wrong but I was taught it was inefficient and stupid. By contrast if
you bring children up in an ivory tower where all they hear about is
ideals then they will not be able as effectively to cope with a real
world & might rebel.

Well if you are talking about people like Avi, Me or Stan (who live in
an upper middle class neighborhoods) I have no problem with this. BUT..
I think it would be a chilul hashem to tell a person living in a less
affluent neighborhood who has a dozen children and is just making ends
meet that he should abstain. After all by ABSTAINING from a permissable
action he may take away money that his family needs. There are always 2
sides to the coin.Aren't we obligated to tell him to play COLLECT CALL?

One person cited Cal law that prohibits 'making arrangements to steal
from the phone company'. Quite frankly I have not reviewed the notes to
this law and don't know if it covers the collect call game. But even if
it did, it frequently happens that what is prohibited in one state is
permissable in other states. In fact many corporations make money that
way.

I hope this clarifies the new issues brought up in this discussion.

Russell Hendel; Phd ASA; RHendel@Towson.Edu; Math
http://www.shamash.org/rashi/