(c) Apr 18 2001 RashiYomi Inc. MY COLLECTED & INDEXED MAIL JEWISH POSTINGS-Ver #1
Individual Postings 1st appeared(& were copied in html form) on the Email List Mail Jewish

From: Russell Hendel <rhendel@saber.towson.edu>
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 12:48:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: One may be obligated to say bad things in certain Circumstances

David and Toby Curwin in mail jewish Volume 31 Number 59 writes
> addition: The sin of Dibat HaAretz (slandering the land) applies even
> when someone tells the truth (which was not done in the post Carl
> responded to-). >>>>> (I believe this refers to my post)
>
> The Netziv got angry at him again & said: "The spies also told the truth, &
> yet they were still punished, and this comes to teach us: Who ever tells
> "dibat ha'aretz", even if it is true, is like the spies, and his sin is
> unbearable..." (Sarei HaMeah 5:184)

Carl also made this point about Dibat HaAretz.

Already, Yitzchok Zlochower has protested comparing me to the spies. I
also vigorously protest that I violated the most heinous sin known to
Judaism, (slander). From a purely technical legal point of view you are
allowed and obligated to say bad things about a person or land or object
**IF** the statements meet the 7 criteria listed by the Chafetz Chaiim
which includes that(a) the purpose of such statements is to prevent
people from doing something bad for them (b) there is no
exaggeration. So just as I must tell a man about faults in a young lady
he is contemplating going out with seriously or just as I must tell
faults of a potential business partner so too I must tell faults of the
land of Israel to people who may go up there.

In fact at least 2 good things came from my post: (1) several people
pointed out that the situation has changed since the time that the
article that I cited had been written (there are legal changes in Israel
all the time) (2) several women have related personal experiences WITH
ADVICE...eg one piece of advice combined from several postings is that
young females who have characteristics that would probably invite
(unwanted) advances in the middle easy should delay their aliyah until
they are more established in their jobs.

I should emphasize that I do not consider the issues 'silly' or 'flimsy'
Several studies suggest that women like/pick jobs based on how their
peers treat them (workplace atmosphere) (while men are more likely to
pick/like jobs based on the opportunity for advancement). The chronicle
of higher education (sometime during the academic year 93-94) wrote an
article showing that highschool atmosphere was a **major** reason for
girls dropping out of high school (and I would imagine this observation
could be extended to jobs).

I believe the above two paragraphs should answer Yitzchok who suggests that
> perhaps it is a question of posting often enough that you are
> ultimately going to say something foolish.  It should be sufficient to
> point out the fallacies of his argument while avoiding personal attack.

Finally on a personal note to the several posters who suggest that I
have been rationalizing my own non-aliya: The reason I never made aliyah
had nothing to do with the posting I wrote---when I did inquire (several
times)about aliyah I was told that job opportunities were poor for my
professions and specialized fields. Also on a personal note (to the
person who suggested that "you and your wife would like it here in
Israel") I have never been married.

Russell Jay Hendel; Phd ASA; Math; Towson University
Moderator Rashi Is Simple;
http://www.shamash.org/rashi/