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From: Russell Hendel <rhendel@saber.towson.edu> Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 23:55:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Maybe that is why we don't yet have the Messiah Yeshaya Halevi citing Meir Shinnar citing Rav Dressler in v31n95 states > in Michtav Me Eliyahu (R E Dessler)... R Dessler says that the > opposition to corporal punishment is based on infiltration of modern > ideas, and that the true haredi approach mandates corporal punishment. > He even goes so far as to say that if a student is well behaved, Yeshaya continues > I also witnessed the way Rabbi Dessler -- my Uncle Velvel -- used > his belt on my cousins. First I would like to publicly state that maybe the reason we are in Galuth(Exile) without a Messiah is because of stories like the above--- maybe we are forced to live with Americans and other non-jewish nations so that we can learn not to beat our students. Second, I think one chilling story deserves another chiller. A chilling Rambam in Murder 2:14 states >> It appears to me based on Ex 21:21 that it is only permissable for a master to hit his servant (or student) with a non-lethal object-- but a person has NO PERMISSION to hit his servant with a STONE or FIST or AN IRON OBJECT (and if he does hit the servant and the servant dies then the master is liable to a FULL death penalty because he was out of bounds!!! (In passing a belt would ONLY be permissable if it was eg made out of cotton or some other material that could not inflict much harm (but scare the student) >> I conclude with the fact that hitting ANYBODY ("wicked/righteous man/woman adult/minor) is a Biblical crime(negative commandment) Rambam Torts 5:1) Josh Backon (v31n95) cites similar sources in the Ritva and Meiri Russell Jay Hendel; Phd ASA; RHendel@Towson.Edu Moderator Rashi is SImple http://www.shamash.org/rashi/